Vehicle-to-Grid Experts Join ‘A Conversation with SMT’ to Discuss How V2G Will Change the Grid Landscape
The recent SMT panel discussion on vehicle-to-grid technology, markets, and policy featured a conversation with Ralph Adams, Director of Utility Partnerships at Nuvve Holding Corp.; Greggory Kresge, Sr. Manager at World Resources Institute; Charles Botsford, consultant focusing on vehicle-grid integration; and Ben Marcoux, electrical engineer working on transportation electrification.
- New York, NY (1888PressRelease) January 24, 2022 - On December 15, 2021, SMT held an expert panel conference call with Ralph Adams, Director of Utility Partnerships at Nuvve Holding Corp. (Nasdaq: NVVE); Greggory Kresge, Senior Manager, Utility Engagement and Transportation Electrification at the World Resources Institute; Charles Botsford, a consultant focusing on vehicle-grid integration; and Benoit Marcoux, an executive advisor with extensive experience in transportation electrification. This conversation brought together these experts from different angles of the vehicle-to-grid (V2G) electric vehicle (EV) charging landscape to share insights on the latest breakthroughs in the technology and identify where red tape and overall inertia has been slowing the process down in recent years.
This entry in ‘A Conversation with SMT’ featured a moderated conversation, including a deep dive into the opportunities presented by V2G charging to transform the transportation sector into a sort of mobile and agile energy storage solution that can empower grid operators, increase penetration of clean energy sources, enable homeowners to reduce their energy costs, and incentivize the use and ownership of electric vehicles. Panelists shared their expert views into what the state of the technology looks like today and how it will continue to evolve, identified the key stakeholders across this process, and pinpointed where greater focus and investment is needed to live the world of V2G to great commercial opportunities. Greggory Kresge set the stage early on, noting: “True V2G discharges energy supplied in vehicle batteries back to the utility grid where the energy mixes with electrons from other generating sources. Done correctly, the discharge of that stored energy can provide grid services and be viewed as an asset. Done without utility interaction, it can be detrimental to the grid and cause more problems than it solves.”
Agreeing that the landscape was ripe for innovation and the technology is primed for taking the next step, Nuvve’s Ralph Adams noted that “V2G operates along a newfound seam at the intersection of the transport and electric utility sectors. Nuvve’s V2G technology has been deployed in Europe for over five years and is currently being deployed across the U.S. It holds tremendous potential to accelerate large-scale themes including de-carbonization and renewables. Down at the local level, V2G can also deliver ratepayer benefits tied to things like direct cost reduction, resource flexibility, and resilience. V2G will be imperative to truly scale EV adoption.”
While the technology has become robust and the electrical models are clear on the potential for V2G to create new opportunities for grid operators, many projects have stalled out at the pilot stage. However, the challenges remain more regulatory in nature as opposed to technical, according to Charles Botsford. He noted in this conversation that: “Several CA IOUs are conducting V2G pilots this year and next, which will go far to prove that the technical hurdles are low. Really, it's the regulatory and market hurdles that will take time to work through.”
Benoit Marcoux agreed, additionally pointing out the complexity of the environment for both transportation and electricity, noting: “We have thousands of electric utilities and aggregators regulated by 50 states and 10 provinces, tens of charging network operators and charger makers, 25 automakers offering 39 different brands, all impacting V2G adoption.”
QUESTION AND ANSWER
As an outcome of the expert panel, those attending live shared a number of key questions with our panelists who were happy to weigh in with their perspectives:
Question: what is the cost factor of V2G for the consumer and for the provider(s)?
Ben noted that costs include the EV (with possible additional costs), the charger (or electric vehicle service equipment, or EVSE), and possible fees for third-party management of the EVSE.
Speaking from the Nuvve perspective, Ralph noted that they price their solution in a variety of ways, but they’re not principally a hardware or software vendor. Rather, their business model entails installing a solution and participating in ongoing value created. That said, for pilots, they recognize the need to be flexible as utilities are still trying to understand the technology, but there are a range of options. In cases where Nuvve retains 100% of the grid revenues achieved, the EVSE equipment might actually be free. Further, DC V2G costs are considerably more than, say, a unidirectional EVSE. AC V2G is thought likely to drastically affect this cost equation, according to Ralph, because it’s simpler, but he also notes that AC V2G is not readily available today without special OEM modifications.
Question: will energy usage by EVs likely outpace the supply? If so, is this detrimental to the notion of a greener world, and will it drive up the cost of traditional energy sources?
Ben said this was not a concern, highlighting he’s more worried by heat electrification as it is far less flexible than EV charging.
From Ralph’s perspective, much depends on the timing of EV charging. If the EVs are being charged during the hottest times in the summer, there may be a problem in that the grid is built to deliver the maximum energy demand during this high-water mark time, and currently, EVs are not a major category of demand and so incremental usage at that time would necessitate incremental generator build to meet demand. But, he notes, the grid is not used at a static rate every hour of the year, so if you can direct charging loads to the times of the year when the wires are not ‘fully loaded,’ then tremendous efficiencies in utilization can be gained and consumers stand to benefit.
Taking that further to evaluate whether that impacts the move towards a green world, Ralph notes that simple V1G managed charging will not be sufficiently smart or flexible enough to derive an optimal decision and utilities will increasingly need better information about customer EV usage and charging patterns. The utilities will need greater control and granularity, as EVs will shift utility patterns away from the status quo that the top determinant of power usage is the weather. Ralph goes on further to note that power production today is undergoing a massive shift and de-carbonization is well underway from tools like efficiency and renewables build-out. He posits that this will help ensure that the power-related aspects do, in fact, make the V2G shift greener than the status quo.
Ralph goes on to note that there will undoubtedly be good opportunities for electric generators in this energy transition. His experience suggests that any growing pains and market tightness will likely be met with exuberant suppliers who will fill the void and arbitrage out any inefficiencies. In his opinion, EVs done right can avoid a lot of this because they’ll avoid charging at inopportune times.
Question: what is the timeline and roadmap for V2G to come to fruition?
Ben predicts this will all come to wider commercialization within a few years.
According to Ralph, Europe is leading the way in terms of commercial deployment. Nuvve has five year-plus commercial deployment using light-duty passenger vehicles in Denmark and other countries are opening market paths. Japanese auto manufacturers are very involved in V2G as a standard option and the country is known for being primed for DER-style electric innovation. In the U.S., Ralph notes that they’ve begun commercial deployments in the electric school bus segment and elsewhere. From Ralph’s perspective, the uptake in V2G has risen considerably over the past year as people are increasingly comfortable with an EV future and new opportunities come to market like the Ford F-150 with V2-Home and more. The key determinant on timing, notes Ralph, is not technology-based but is rather from regulatory and policy structures which are currently built around a unidirectional network. Moving forward, though, consumers will become prosumers and deliver back to the network, so the rules need to catch up (a process that is happening at varying rates across the country).
Question: What will differentiate the companies that succeed in this space?
From Ben’s perspective, there are multiple stakeholder categories. Utilities depend on favorable local (state, provincial) regulations and market structure. Charger (EVSE) vendors need a good distribution channel, working with utilities or going directly to consumers, depending on the market structure. Automakers need to work together and with standard bodies in order to avoid a fragmented market, especially interconnection.
Ralph suggests you need to have robust technology and also the right commercial strategy, as this segment is also going to advocate for necessary market reforms to get the unidirectional power grid to unlock the benefits of V2G.
Question: What is the relevant policy landscape for V2G of which stakeholders should be aware?
Ben noted that policies are mostly set at the state/province level in United States and Canada, not at the federal level. Federal governments, however, provide fundings to support EV growth.
Ralph answered that there are increasing numbers of programs that allow V2G to discharge and participate. Utility pilots are also popping up and, for example, NV Energy’s efforts around transport electrification and V2G are timely and hugely important. Policymakers need help to understand what V2G is and how it can make a difference. In the end, Ralph continues, the opportunity is to reap huge efficiencies out of the system and ratepayers stand to gain through this innovation. Plus, says Ralph, states are increasingly seeing EV trends as a chance to foster new industry, which means jobs and economic growth – all positive outcomes for elected officials.
Question: Emergency electricity is one large application of V2G, but EV is very vulnerable in a harsh climate. Is it a technological challenge?
In response to this question, Ben noted that the concern is more appropriate for vehicle-to-home or vehicle-to-load, not V2G. In practice, even internal combustion vehicles are challenged during emergencies, as gas stations also shut down.
Greggory agreed, citing a recent story he had read (though not independently verified) on Alaska’s first electric school bus managing the minus 40-degree temperatures without any issue.
Ralph does not think this is a technological challenge, as emergency backup is an application for V2G that is emerging. He suggests battery storage will be effective in many locations where disasters occur, such as the recent tornadoes in Kentucky as well as in the Southeast after a hurricane.
Question: Automakers would not want to use their EV for powering other batteries. Also, automakers would want to void or compromise the battery warranty since EVs were not developed and optimized for V2G applications and likely the battery would not endure V2G and EV warranty.
Ben’s response to the question included that Nissan has been supported the idea of V2G since 2013. Going forward, V2G is a value stream for software-enabled vehicles, through subscriptions.
Charles agreed, noting that concerns about automakers and their reservations about warranty and battery capacity fade sounds like it should be an issue. However, with as much effort as the OEMs are putting into battery technology and V2G, he doubts battery capacity fade or warranty will be problematic. The most recent reports on capacity fade with data from real programs show it's not that much of an issue.
About the panelists
Ralph Adams is the Director of Utility Partnerships at Nuvve Holding Corp. who is leading the electrification of the planet, beginning with transportation, through its intelligent energy platform. After having developed expertise in power markets and grid-edge technology through his time with several grid operators, Ralph jumped to Nuvve when he realized the potential for electric vehicles to provide the type of opportunities of which grid opportunities have long dreamt.
Greggory Kresge is the Senior Manager, Utility Engagement and Transportation Electrification, at World Resources Institute (WRI), where he specifically focuses on school bus electrification and how V2G integration can play a role in this corner of the market. Gregg has spent a career in the utility sector, having previously served as the Electrification of Transportation-Project Delivery Manager for Hawaiian Electric, while also serving as the Co-chair of the Smart Electric Power Alliance (SEPA) EV working group.
Charles Botsford is a professional chemical engineer with 30 years of experience in program management, EV charging infrastructure, energy storage, and environmental management. He participates in the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) J3072 AC Vehicle-to-Grid standards committee and in California’s Vehicle Grid Integration (VGI) Working Group. Mr. Botsford holds bachelor’s and master’s degrees in chemical engineering, has worked in oil refining, engineering design and construction, boiler manufacturing, environmental consulting, and aerospace, and has more than 30 technical publications. He now consults in EV charging infrastructure, energy storage, and vehicle-grid integration.
Benoit Marcoux has spent his career as a business advisor in the telecom and energy industries, where he has sold, led, or supported over a hundred customer projects spanning six continents, including the management of the largest smart meter installation program in Canada. In recent years, he’s focused squarely on transportation electrification, including studying the potential of V2G to transform the grid. Merging technology, marketing, and finance, Ben is an electrical engineer with a Master’s degree in Applied Sciences and an MBA. HE regularly publishes analysis on his blog and comments on industry news on LinkedIn.
About the session
Conducted via a teleconference format, moderator Matt Chester noted that ‘as the electric vehicle space grows in terms of both automakers and drivers, the ability of the power sector to use V2G will turn this greatest historical increase to energy demand profiles from a burden to a true opportunity, and our panelists are able to highlight those opportunities as well as anybody.’ Martin Jacobs, Managing Director, Head of Research, added ‘The SMT model allows us to bring leaders in the alternative energy space and areas like vehicle electrification together to discuss where the opportunities lay, who are the early movers and disruptors, and guide the thought leaders of the sector towards identifying the key winners and losers in these fast-moving developments. With these calls, we seek to help inform investors and industry onlookers in a more advanced, and insider viewpoint.’
About SMT
SMT’s mission is to be the leading research provider on short-, medium-, and long-term trends surrounding companies in and related to the semiconductor and greater technology value chain, cryptocurrency, cybersecurity, and alternative energy. Our clients base their tactical and strategic decisions on the accuracy of our research. Research is provided through surveys, written research, individual consultations, and bespoke research projects. SMT has a unique quantitative dashboard allowing clients to engage online in company-specific research. SMT also organizes events (online and in-person), and panel discussions with thought leaders in the industry. Clients include companies in the respective space, BoDs, VCs, and institutional investors.
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